Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/03/2002 10:35 AM Senate RLS
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RULES COMMITTEE
April 3, 2002
10:35 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Randy Phillips, Chair
Senator John Cowdery, Vice Chair
Senator Gene Therriault
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Rick Halford
Senator Johnny Ellis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 205
"An Act relating to control of nuisance wild animals; and
providing for an effective date."
APPROVED FOR CALENDARING
SENATE BILL NO. 220
"An Act relating to the scope of practice authorized under a
license to practice hairdressing."
APPROVED FOR CALENDARING
SENATE BILL NO. 328
"An Act requiring that a nonresident big game hunter be
accompanied by a big game guide who is providing big game hunting
services to the nonresident under a contract with the nonresident
or who is employed by a big game guide who has a contract to
provide big game hunting services to the nonresident."
APPROVED FOR CALENDARING
SENATE BILL NO. 342
"An Act relating to the long term care ombudsman."
APPROVED FOR CALENDARING
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 343(FIN)
"An Act extending the termination date of the Board of
Professional Counselors; and relating to licensing of
professional counselors."
APPROVED FOR CALENDARING
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
WITNESS REGISTER
Ms. Amy Erickson
Staff to Representative Murkowski
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented CSHB 343(FIN) for the sponsor
Ms. Anne Henry
Chair, Board of Professional Counselors
Division of Occupational Licensing
Department of Community & Economic Development
PO Box 110806
Juneau, AK 99811-0806
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained the proposed amendments to CSHB
343(FIN) to committee members
Dr. Phillip Baker
Alaska Psychological Association
4325 Laurel #215
Anchorage, AK 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to CSHB 343(FIN) letter of intent
Dr. Deborah Mohn
Alaska Psychological Association
2024 Shepherdia
Anchorage, AK 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to CSHB 343(FIN) letter of intent
Dr. David Sperbeck
Psychology Licensing Board
2530 Debarr Rd.
Anchorage, AK 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed to CSHB 343(FIN) letter of intent
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-5, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN RANDY PHILLIPS called the Senate Rules Committee meeting
to order at 10:35 a.m. Present were Senators Cowdery, Therriault,
and Phillips. Chairman Phillips informed members that SB 205
would not be heard as it was not in the possession of the
committee. The committee took up SB 220.
SENATOR COWDERY moved to calendar at the Chairman's discretion SB
220-SCOPE OF PRACTICE OF HAIRDRESSING with its attached fiscal
notes.
There being no objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced the motion
carried.
SENATOR COWDERY moved to calendar at the Chairman's discretion SB
328-BIG GAME HUNTERS ACCOMPANIED BY GUIDE with its two
accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced the motion
carried.
SENATOR COWDERY moved to calendar at the Chairman's discretion SB
342-LONG TERM CARE OMBUDSMAN with its attached fiscal notes.
There being no objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced the motion
carried.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced that today's Senate Rules hearing on
CSHB 343-BD OF PROF. COUNSELORS: SUNSET & MISC (FIN) is the first
committee hearing in the Senate. He informed members that the
committee would take public testimony and that Senator Therriault
would offer amendments to CSHB 343(FIN).
MS. AMY ERICKSON, staff to Representative Murkowski and the House
Labor and Commerce Committee, explained that CSHB 343(FIN)
extends the termination date of the Board of Professional
Counselors and amends professional counselors' education
requirements to 60 semester hours during or after their achieved
graduate degree. The bill also allows counselors to begin earning
their supervised experience immediately upon completion of their
education, instead of waiting until they complete their graduate
hours of training.
MS. ERICKSON stated that Amendment 1 (J.3) will allow licensed
professional counselors from other states to meet criteria to
supervise clinicians. Master's level clinicians who have been
supervised outside of Alaska will receive credit for their work
when they move to the state and apply for licensure. Amendment 2
(J.4) simply clarifies that certifications for all types of
supervising professionals will remain in effect unless their
licenses are revoked, suspended, or otherwise lapse. Two
amendments have been proposed by the Board of Professional
Counselors.
SENATOR THERRIAULT clarified that it came to light that if a
clinician had done a practicum or was supervised under the
direction of a supervisor out of state, the clinician would have
to start from scratch when he or she moved to Alaska. The
amendments basically say that the time a clinician spends under
supervision in another state will count toward Alaska's
requirements.
MS. ERICKSON agreed.
MS. ANNE HENRY, Chair of the Board of Licensed Professional
Counselors, informed members that as the board was reviewing its
regulations, it came across a provision that would have allowed
only professional counselors licensed in Alaska to supervise. The
board wanted to clarify that licensed professional counselors in
other states could also supervise. The second change that
pertains to Amendment 2 is the result of a glitch that allows the
board to decertify any licensed professional counselor who lost
his or her license but does not allow the board to decertify any
other counseling professional.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS took teleconference testimony.
DR. PHILLIP BAKER, Executive Director of the Alaska Psychological
Association (APA), offered the following testimony. The APA
supports the extension of the licensing of professional
counselors through the next sunset period, which ends in June of
2005. However, buried within the text of HB 343 is a letter of
intent indicating a recommendation that all four mental health
boards, the Boards of Psychologists, Marriage and Family
Therapists, and Social Workers and Professional Counselors, be
combined into one board. The APA takes great exception to that
letter of intent and urges that it be dropped from the bill.
DR. BAKER explained that with Governor Hickel's desire to reduce
the size and expense of government, legislation passed that
required professional boards to reduce their size and costs. At
that time, Senator Drue Pearce was Chair of the Senate Labor and
Commerce Committee and contacted the APA. The only other mental
health board at that time was a board of social workers. The two
boards agreed to take on the full costs of the operation of their
boards in order to remain separate. The boards felt the
administration of those licensing boards is very labor intensive
and requires a lot of applicant review work. Both boards felt
that combining them would reduce the oversight function, create
problems, and possibly increase liability from consumers who
might be more at risk. Members of the Division of Legislative
Budget and Audit have indicated that no economic benefit will be
gained by combining the board. However, this issue came up as the
result of an audit done last spring by the division in which
several other boards (Boards of Family and Marital Therapists and
Professional Counselors) felt there might be an economy of effort
to establish their internal organization. The Boards of
Psychologists and Social Workers already have well-established
infrastructures and do not need that kind of work. What is
overlooked in this proposal is the loss of potential oversight
function and that more people will probably be needed to
coordinate, oversee and supervise the boards involved. For these
reasons, the APA recommends that something be done to drop the
letter of intent from the bill.
DR. SPERBECK, Chairman of the Psychology Licensing Board, echoed
Dr. Baker's comments about the Psychology Licensing Board's
objection to being integrated with other boards. The scope of
training and practice of psychologists is very different from the
other professionals. He spends at least 5 to 10 hours per week
evaluating training curricula, coursework, ethical issues and
continuing education for the psychology profession for the
purpose of protecting the public. He is only able to do that
because he is a trained psychologist and knows what to look for.
He does not feel qualified to evaluate the training curricula of
social workers or other counseling professionals. He is strongly
opposed to integrating the boards. He pointed out that in other
jurisdictions, such as Kansas and Nebraska, with combined boards,
the result was not favorable and many reversed that action.
Psychologists have been willing to pay higher licensing fees to
remain independent.
MS. DEBORAH MOHN, President of the Alaska Psychological
Association, said she agrees with the last two speakers. As a
child psychologist, her education and training were quite
different from that of a social worker or licensed professional
counselor. She said it would be impossible to be familiar enough
with the licensing requirements of all of the fields to protect
the public.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS asked Dr. Baker if the Senate Labor and
Commerce Committee intended to adopt the letter of intent.
DR. BAKER said he did not know.
SENATOR THERRIAULT moved to adopt Amendment 1, which reads as
follows.
22-LS1275\J.3
Lauterbach
4/16/02
A M E N D M E N T 1
OFFERED IN THE SENATE
TO: CSHB 343(FIN)
Page 2, following line 27:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 3. AS 08.29.210(a) is amended to read:
(a) The board shall approve and certify a person as an
approved counselor supervisor for the purposes of this
chapter if the person
(1) is licensed [UNDER THIS CHAPTER] as a
professional counselor or is a licensed physician, licensed
advanced nurse practitioner who is certified to provide
psychiatric or mental health services, licensed clinical
social worker, licensed marital and family therapist,
licensed psychologist, or licensed psychological associate;
(2) submits an application for certification and
the appropriate fee;
(3) has five years of counseling experience;
(4) provides to the board for its approval or
disapproval a statement that details the person's
supervision philosophy, orientation, and experience; and
(5) meets other criteria that may be established
by the board in regulations."
MS. ERICKSON explained that Amendment 1 will allow professional
counselors from other states to meet the criteria to supervise
clinicians.
There being no objection, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced the motion
carried.
SENATOR THERRIAULT moved to adopt Amendment 2 (J.4), which reads
as follows.
22-LS1275\J.4
Lauterbach
4/16/02
A M E N D M E N T 2
OFFERED IN THE SENATE
TO: CSHB 343(FIN)
Page 2, following line 27:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 3. AS 08.29.210(b) is amended to read:
(b) Certification under (a) of this section remains in
effect, without the need for renewal of the certification,
until the person's professional licensure [AS A PROFESSIONAL
COUNSELOR] is revoked, suspended, or otherwise lapses."
MS. ERICKSON explained that Amendment 2 clarifies that
certifications for all types of supervising professionals will
remain in effect unless their license is revoked, suspended, or
lapses.
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if Amendment 2 is linked to the first
amendment as far as eliminating the ability to do supervisory
work if a license is pulled.
MS. ERICKSON said that is correct.
There being no objection to Amendment 2, CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS
announced that Amendment 2 was adopted.
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if the fiscal note reflects an increase
in fees.
MS. CATHERINE REARDON, Director of the Division of Occupational
Licensing, informed members that the fiscal note reflects the
division's expenditures that have been requested in the 2003
budget. That request is based on the amount spent last year. She
also mentioned that the House letter of intent was in members'
packets when the bill was discussed by the Senate Labor and
Commerce Committee. Members did not specifically address the
letter of intent or take any action on it.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS asked if whether the letter of intent has any
effect on any fiscal note.
MS. REARDON said it does not because the letter of intent says it
is the intent of the House that the boards merge in 2005.
Legislation would have to pass to do that so the fiscal note
attached to that legislation would contain those costs.
SENATOR THERRIAULT moved SCS HB 343(RLS) for calendaring with one
zero fiscal note.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS announced that with no objection, the motion
carried.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS said the committee will not take up the letter
of intent, which he personally opposes.
SENATOR THERRIAULT said that by taking no action, the Senate
cannot undo the action taken in the House so the House's
expression of intent still stands. The letter actually specifies
that it is the intent of the House Labor and Commerce Committee.
He noted the third paragraph of the letter extends an offer to
the boards to propose alternative combinations. He said he feels
comfortable not taking action on the letter of intent as it will
stand as the House's expression alone. He pointed out the Senate
could not take action to negate it anyway.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS said that is true unless the Senate amends it
to be the intent of the Senate and House. He noted that due to
lack of interest, the committee would take no action on the
letter of intent.
SENATOR THERRIAULT indicated that any senator can bring the
letter of intent up on the Senate floor.
CHAIRMAN PHILLIPS agreed. With no further business, he adjourned
the meeting at 10:57 a.m.
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